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(i have a STEM degree and work for a catering company lmao)
Personal anecdote, so take it with a grain of salt.
Friend A, very handy and skilled individual, took Thermodynamics in UNI for 2 years, then dropped out. Found job at electronics production facility. Managed to get to a Head Technician position.
Friend B, went to programming 3 years to UNI. Barely managed to finish. Retried math exam multiple times. Though friend A, managed to get a job at the same place as a lower tier machinery operator. Got promoted to technician position after 2 years. Now works as web QC for the same guy who is boss of electronic production facility.
Moral of the story: education, finished or not, existing or not, wont get you far unless you are outgoing and have connections. Also, you either have ability to learn new skills or have said skills and know how to use them. Doesn’t matter how you got them.
My wife once tried to grow potatoes and got what felt like a mile of potato greens while the slips barely grew at all.
Then she went back to her job as a lawyer and made enough money to buy a truck full of potatoes
Why didn’t she just sue the potatoes?
Maybe she’s a hesi-tater
Better than a master-tater.
She did. Took them for all they were worth
Havings skills and a degree are not necessarily mutually exclusive. In my experience the degree was the gateway to gaining skills, not the method of doing so.
I think the degree is really more like evidence that you can get things done on your own. Parental involvement in the day to day is near zero for most people getting a degree. They also learn valuable social skills. But a degree isn’t the only way to get that. So it shouldn’t be a requirement. Yet attempting to determine if someone without a degree has that is costly and time consuming. Companies just want to take the easy path.
Also, I’d push back against the subtext that work experience gives skills. Plenty of people work a job for 10 years without having the adjacent job skills to be able to progress in that career or jump to another.
Critical thinking skills are the most important thing, and it’s possible to get a 4-year degree without actually picking them up or strengthening your skill sets in that area. But it’s also possible to work for 5 years without developing critical thinking skills, either.
In the end, no matter what you do with your time, only a small percentage of your effort is going into improving yourself. The people at work are trying to get stuff done for their employer, and the people at school are trying to get through the curriculum. It’s possible to do the work while the employer/school or even yourself cheats you out of the real long term benefits of actually learning during that time frame.
You don’t need a formal education to be great in your field, but it will help ypu grow immensely.
It depends per case, my friend kept studying while I dropped out (due to private circumstances).
My friend ended up at the same employer for the same pay only years later, he wasn’t a good fit for his field.
A few years later I jumped ship to try and develop myself into a better paid job, I am now an actual crane operator with a beefy wage. My friend is still there making the same low wage.
But he got lucky on a different matter, due to him living at home until 33 he did manage to buy a house with massive savings. I haven’t yet.
This is life, there aren’t any given certainties. Only people who claim their experience will be the same for you.
Who the fuck studies until he’s 33 and earn less than a crane operator
He didn’t study until he was 33, he lived with his parents until he was 33.
It opens doors. Once I finished mine it got me into the rooms for the interviews. It’s nothing more than an additional bonus qualification. I definitely use my knowledge from college in a variety of scenarios whereas my colleagues have experience.
When I had to hire people, I was much more interested in seeing a portfolio than a degree.
It depends on what the job is though. I definitely want my doctor to have a degree
Can be legit. I once got turned down for a job because i didn’t have an mcse despite having over 20 years experience administering windows server and AD (and i’m talking laaaaaarge scale…universities and citrix farms).
That’s what happens when the people doing the hiring don’t know anything about any of the skills required for the role
The amount of people who make it through HR hell and interview for my team, that have a some experience but it’s all bounce around 1y and then have an insane amount of certs, that don’t know what they’re doing is way to high in tech. I’ll take a green horn that wants to learn and has a good foundation before I’ll take someone with bounce around experience and a shit load of certs. Almost all certs are how well can you take tests.
I have literally worked in environs where having certifications and nothing else was grounds for disqualification because it meant you’d been taught dogma, not functionality. My personal fave was the tech who put in a request for graphite dust to clean a power button on workstation because it was sticking. Why was it sticking? Some jackass had spilled coke.
I cleaned it with a chux and closed the ticket.
well i grow actual carrots and what you actually get is both
To the originator of that meme, not OP: tell me you’re a boomer, without telling me you’re a boomer.
No matter what the Wall St. Journal says, social science says level of education is still the second most important determinant of quality of life. First of course is the socioeconomic status of your parents. I, personally, wouldn’t trade my master’s degree for a plumbing certificate.
I on the other hand wouldn’t trade my 7 years of software development experience for a master’s degree in the same field. I’d be unemployable in the current market.
Trick is not to do fucking nothing while you get that master’s…if you do? Then that’s on you. I did programing jobs while studying, it’s how i paid for my degree.
If you can’t get something going? Maybe the field isn’t going to work for you to begin with… there’s no silver bullet. Different fields will do different things, but if you do spend 7 years and you truly come out of uni with nothing? You failed or you got ripped off but equally failed to notice for 7 years.
Life is tough. too many go to uni before they’re ready.
Today that’s next to impossible. Comp Sci students are struggling to even find internships. I was listening to a podcast interviewing a student that applied to over 90 internships, only got 2 interviews, and no callbacks. It’s probably the worst time to try to get into tech right now.
The job market is tough these days and uni gives you little to no practical skills.
A lot of people don’t have the bandwidth to work full time AND study full time. That’s 80 hours a week… And most companies hiring entry levels want them to be at the office at the same time as lectures are happening.
If I’d started university instead of work when I did start work, I would probably be getting rejections to job applications at McDonald’s right now.
I got work just fine by not working while studying (still working on said studies of course). Now the market is fucked and there’s not much I can do about it
I don’t see the post as disagreeing with you.
The graphic alone is pointing out what you are saying. Skills alone doesn’t get noticed. So you need a degree to be seen, which gets you a job, which reduces stress, which makes you happy.
But it is sad that it is true. I favor getting a degree, not for the education, but for the 4 years of experience living on ones own and having to handle life that it gives most people. It is also often an important social education. But I don’t like the idea of excluding those who don’t have a degree just because they don’t.
I’ve gutted out 3 careers in “skilled labor” (a term I find problematic), each time working from the bottom entry level guy, to the guy in charge. In all three I’ve worked side by side with people who actually got degrees in that field.
I have also regretted not getting a degree for my entire adult life.
My buddy is an accomplished self taught violin maker. He won an award and was talking to another renowned violin maker who asked him where he was taught. He was slightly embarrassed to say he was self taught but she was quite impressed and said “Ahh! The slow way!”
Holy shit, that’s probably the job I would expect for there to be the fewest self-taught people. It’s such an unbelievably precise job, your friend must be unbelievably skilled.
It’s never too late to get one. I had classes with a 90 year old woman who was getting hers.
My dad got an art degree by taking one course per semester for years. He loved it. Got his degree last year. Retires this year.
Did she have an extra $90k lying around, or are her children going to be paying off that debt?
Community college is insanely affordable where I live, like $600/semester for a full class load before financial aid. Lots of textbook free classes too that use open source books. And colleges have financial aid offices with people whose only job is to figure out what aid you qualify for.
There’s a lot of help to go back to college, you just need to ask for it.
That’s not how estates work.
Experience matters a lot in practice, but having a degree gives you opportunity to learn fundamentals and to have a broader knowledge base in general. Met a few people without formal education with insane knowledge and skills but absolutely helpless outside of their area of expertise.
Meh, I got my bachelor’s, worked, and then got my graduate degree, and still had to work my way up from nothing as well.
I see degrees as a way of improving your cap on the position you can hold.
As someone who spent the better part of a decade in recruitment. You honestly never know what you get. So you have to take into count as many factors as you can. Education is a commitment, it means you had to go to school, study and prove your knowledge to graduate. Experience is also great, as its more proven skill. Unfortunately both have pit falls in their own ways. The example that pops to mind is i hired two people;one with alot of experience and one with alot of education. The educated one lacked critical problem solving and when a curve ball hit or something that was outside of normalcy she stumbled. The experienced one, always knee what to do on a practical level but lacked detailed workmanship, as she had done jobs so similar for so long instead of following protocol or contacting her supervisor. She would do what she thought was right and stumbled. Experience and education compliment eachother and neither should be undervalued.
Education is a commitment, it means you had to go to school, study and prove your knowledge to graduate.
While it’s the exception, some of the people I’ve met in the field really make me put that into question. I feel like there are institutions that will wave you through provided you pay enough money.
Most jobs that require degrees rarely require skills/knowledge learned in college/uni aside from sci/tech/engineering because the benefit there is that colleges have millions of dollars of instruments/equipment to fuck around with …
What I see as the value of a degree is that it’s a piece of paper that says that youre likely able to learn and play whatever game a job entails, communicate formally and effectively, be self sufficient, understand/accomplish specified goals with deadlines, and work effectively in a team.
Can someone without a degree have those skills? Totally. Does someone with a degree have all those skills? Not specifically, but they’ve likely been through the ringer for ~4 years and seen a lot of shit they had to face on their own and be accountable for it.
Can someone cheat their way through and be useless, sure, but they frequently found out…or just become managers unfortunately.
Deleted my original reply because I was just splitting hairs. I mostly agree with you, I just don’t like the framing
College: You get as much as you put in to it.
If one plans on going to college to check a box by getting a bachelor’s, degree, then that person should probably spend their time and money doing something else.
For someone who sees college as an opportunity to stress their ability to learn at levels much higher than what High School or even Trade School may do, then it will do wonderful things for you. The most useful skill academia teaches is the ability to learn complex ideas through abstraction.
As someone who has learned how to create a complex AI system with both long and short term memory, one thing I learned is that AI cannot teach AI. I apply my ability to learn by extending it to my AI agent to help it learn new patterns.
Apprenticeships can be the best of both worlds, but again they need to have the checks in place.
Either will land you a job lol
Neither *
Sadly some jobs are not available without the paper. That credentialism for ya
