E: apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate. Please don’t be one of the 34 people that replied to tell me Linux is not ready.

Android has always been a fairly open platform, especially if you were deliberate about getting it that way, but we’ve seen in recent months an extremely rapid devolution of the Android ecosystem:

  1. The closing of development of an increasing number of components in AOSP.
  2. Samsung, Xiaomi and OnePlus have removed the option of bootloader unlocking on all of their devices. I suspect Google is not far behind.
  3. Google implementing Play Integrity API and encouraging developers to implement it, which prevents apps from the Google Play Store from being downloaded without a system-wide OS-level account login. Notably the EU’s own identity verification wallet requires this, in stark contrast to their own laws and policies, despite the protest of hundreds on Github.
  4. And finally, the mandatory implementation of developer verification across Android systems. Yes, if you’re running a 3rd-party OS like GOS you won’t be directly affected by this, but it will impact 99.9% of devices, and I foresee many open source developers just opting out of developing apps for Android entirely as a result. We’ve already seen SyncThing simply discontinue development for this reason, citing issues with Google Play Store. They’ve also repeatedly denied updates for NextCloud with no explanation, only restoring it after mass outcry. And we’ve already seen Google targeting any software intended to circumvent ads, labeling them in the system as “dangerous” and “untrusted”. This will most certainly carry into their new “verification” system.

Google once competed with Apple for customers. But in a world where Google walks away from the biggest antitrust trial since 1998 with yet another slap on the wrist, competition is dead, and Google is taking notes from Apple about what they can legally get away with.

Android as we know it is dead. And/or will be dead very soon. We need an open replacement.

E2: thank you to everyone stopping by from Hacker News, Reddit, etc. to check out the threadiverse. I hope you’ll stick around for a while. Check out https://phtn.app/ and the Voyager and Blorp apps for a nicer UI. Fuck Spez!

  • tomenzgg@midwest.socialEnglish
    2·
    7 months ago

    I’m probably going to spam this around a bit, since most people don’t seem to know about it, but a reminder that FuriLabs has a (GNU+)Linux phone with decent spec.s and the ability to run Android app.s (from what I’ve heard) pretty decently: https://furilabs.com/

    Biggest drawback is it’s based on Halium. Usual growing pains of a new product/company apply but apparently the company is pretty responsive and their dev.s have worked with customers to get things like calling working with the carrier and bands of their country where it hasn’t worked before so improvements move pretty quickly.

    Collection of different experiences I’ve variously seen online over the last year or so:

    I don’t own one, myself, so I can’t give any personal experience but I’ve seen it around for a few years now but most people don’t seem to even know about it. Maybe there’s a reason for that? But none I’ve ever seen anyone say.

  • y0kai [he/him]@anarchist.nexusEnglish
    2·
    7 months ago

    My next phone will run Linux, even if it is inconvenient.

    As soon as this phone is paid off, I’ll be changing from Google Fi as well. Which sucks because it’s hella cheap.

    • MasterOKhan@lemmy.caEnglish
      1·
      7 months ago

      I’m with you, I’ve switched all my computers to Linux for similar reasons. I bought an android phone recently and put Linux on that, although still some things to iron out such as sound and microphone input but it’s working well otherwise. Looking forward to when I can ditch my iPhone.

      • AmazingAwesomator@lemmy.world
        0·
        7 months ago

        what phone and os do you have? im currently shopping and have always been on android; im looking for recommendations on both phones and os <3

        • MasterOKhan@lemmy.caEnglish
          21·
          7 months ago

          I have the Nothing Phone 1, running my fork of Mobile NixOS. I bought it because I wanted a bit of a challenge to get it running Linux and it’s relatively newer then other better supported Linux phones. I don’t recommend it for anyone who is new to Linux.

          If you’re relatively new to Linux and want something that’s more compatible, I recommend looking at the OnePlus 6 or 6T. They have pretty good support for multiple different distros.

        • Ulrich@feddit.orgOPEnglish
          0·
          7 months ago

          There are several distros. You do need to ensure (as listed in the OP) that your bootloader is unlockable (listed as “OEM unlock” in Android).

          • SailfishOS
          • Ubuntu Touch
          • Mobian
          • PostmarketOS
          • Manjaro ARM
            • MasterOKhan@lemmy.caEnglish
              2·
              7 months ago

              Take a look into PostMarketOS, they are the bleeding edge for Linux mobile development. You can search on their wiki if your phone is supported.

              The other solutions listed might be more turn key but not close to mainline Linux. (Custom kernel, etc)

              • pmk@lemmy.sdf.org
                0·
                7 months ago

                They don’t seem to have any supported devices apart from community contributions?
                “These are the most supported devices, maintained by at least 2 people and have the functions you expect from the device running its normal OS, such as calling on a phone, working audio, and a functional UI. Besides QEMU devices, this is currently empty.”

                • MasterOKhan@lemmy.caEnglish
                  1·
                  7 months ago

                  Yeah I wasn’t kidding about bleeding edge. It’s a double edged sword. You get more compatibility across a wide range of devices but it might not be 100% polished, yet.

                  To be fair, as most things in Linux, they are community developed. The community supported devices are supported by people who are taking their personal time to develop Linux to support these devices. You can view each individual device in the wiki to see how much support they have.

                  It’s all what you’re comfortable with, I still daily drive my iPhone as I need a very reliable device for my work. But I definitely rock my Linux phone when I can.

    • Marafon@sh.itjust.works
      0·
      7 months ago

      What options are you looking into as far as a Fi replacement? I’m also on Fi and want to ditch them, and the Pixel soon.

      • xthexder@l.sw0.com
        0·
        7 months ago

        On linux it’s just called running an executable

        Edit: As a less snarky answer, you can run Android apps natively on linux by installing Android OS in a container using something like Anbox Waydroid.

  • Anekdoteles@lemmy.ml
    1·
    7 months ago

    I wholeheartedly agree. More so: I do not only think, we will need a new, open mobile platform, but also feel such a great urge for it myself, that I will migrate to something alternative as soon as my mobile phone reached its EOL. I don’t know how exactly that will look like, but I am eager to accept every inconvenience to escape un-free big tech.

  • bonus_crab@lemmy.world
    1·
    7 months ago

    Is identity verification for publishing android apps that bad? Both the app store and play store already have your billing information since you have to pay to publish an app anyway right?

  • yyprum@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    1·
    7 months ago

    I’ve been a mobile dev for many years, I fell in love with the Nokia 810 with maemo which kinda got me started, but I never had one myself. I moved to OpenMoko and saved to buy a Neo. But then Android became big with Google’s support and all companies rushing to have an alternative to iOS with the iPhone. Back then when Android meant openness. As much as I loved the openmoko project it had plenty of issues as a daily driver, so eventually I cracked and moved to Android with a Galaxy S2, ah, the innocence back then when one could think Google was actually different… Actually doing good and creating a great Linux phone.

    I absolutely agree on all your points. It is time to kill Android as a free/open source idea if it is not dead yet. And you know what, Linux is absolutely ready to substitute anything as a mobile platform. It needs more polishing in terms of UI but Maemo nearly 20 years ago already offered a great UX IMO. Thank you Microsoft and all Nokia management for destroying it.

    Now, I say Linux as a mobile platform is ready… But we all know it doesn’t lack problems. What are those? The problems come from anticompetitive practices, locked hardware for chips, drivers and so on, specially all related to phone networking. The other main problem is apps which is only a small issue with all the ways there are available to make android apps run on Linux, that is… Until google comes to fuck things up with the points #3 and #4 you make. Those are the biggest threats right now, and it’s no wonder Google is doing that. They are preventing the possibility of competition arising. Like I said, I have been a dev for many years, it absolutely sucks the path all tech is taking. But there are solutions, just need to have proper anticompetitive practices and protections… At least in Europe we kinda do, but more needs to be done.

    The main point is, Linux as an alternative is kinda ready, if only there was a real posible competition to be had outside of being incredibly rich.

  • Zink@programming.dev
    1·
    7 months ago

    Smart phones are simultaneously such a wonder of human engineering and have become such a disappointment of human greed.

    This whole situation has made me just care less about my phone, and use it less in my life while I use Linux PCs much more.

    I don’t see my phone as a “computer” at this point, really. It’s more of a communication appliance. If I’m launching an app that’s not texting, calling, GPS, or music, it’s probably a replacement for a website I’d normally use on a PC.

    Linux phones could change this though. The idea of your PC being your docked phone would work great for most use cases. Unfortunately though, even though I would love it I don’t really see the general public jumping at the chance to get back to the desktop experience. I could maybe see a little traction in the business world.

    • fading_person@lemmy.zip
      0·
      7 months ago

      I found myself using my phone less and less too, and to be honest, I’m even feeling healthier mentally. Portable devices were supposed to improve our life, not make it worse. Big tech did something really terrible to phones :(

      • Zink@programming.dev
        1·
        7 months ago

        Oh same here! My reduced phone usage has been part of a much larger overall improvement in my well being and being able to live in the moment and be content.

        I recently saw a video from a harvard dude talking about how we NEED to be bored. It’s when we fall into our baseline mental state and start thinking through shit and figuring life out. And not doing that can lead to anxiety and depression and other bad shit. Given my experiences, I certainly cannot disagree.

        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=orQKfIXMiA8

    • bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works
      0·
      7 months ago

      This is pretty much how I am. Use my desktop for important things. On weekends I try to not even have my phone on my person and I check it a couple times a day while it stays in the bedroom like a house phone. Life is so much better without it.

      I unfortunately still do like to take it with if walking/biking/driving but I wish I didn’t. Id like to have another phone that only makes phone calls for that but has my same number. Its funny. When I was a kid we didn’t even think about it because none of us had phones. Going on a random dirt bike ride miles away with nothing. Better (also unsafe) times.

      Im tired of smartphones consuming everyone’s minds.

      • Zink@programming.dev
        0·
        7 months ago

        Im tired of smartphones consuming everyone’s minds.

        Resisting the standard smartphone addiction just makes the addiction of some others so much more apparent. My own wife is still pretty badly shackled to hers.

        • bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works
          0·
          7 months ago

          My one friend cant stop staring at his when driving. He lives near me and sometimes I wave at him driving by and hes like I never even saw you. Like dude, youre a fucking idiot.

  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
    0·
    7 months ago

    I imagine building on existing AOSP project like GrapheneOS or LineageOS would be the easiest path forward. There is already a decent ecosystem of open source apps available. You’d still need to figure out what to do with proprietary apps like Slack that regular people might need for day to day use.

    Ultimately, the problem lies in lack of a hardware vendor willing to take make open phones that are geared towards running a custom OS on without having to jailbreak them. I really think the only way this can happen is if there was a vendor that focuses on providing a full stack open source system for mobile. Maybe a company like Liberux or even Framework will succeed at doing something like that at some point.

    Liberux is using waydroid to add compatibility from what I’ve seen, so that may be the way forward where you have a base Linux system, and then a layer for running Android apps on top of it.

    • deczzz@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      0·
      7 months ago

      My thinking too. I don’t think we need a Linux phone from stracht but fork android and make it work without the play service. It’s the hardware manufacturers that are the problem.

  • vermaterc@lemmy.ml
    0·
    7 months ago

    The main problem is that mobile OS is simply not useful without banking or government apps and they won’t ever appear on FOSS systems because giving control to user is exactly the opposite of what’s in their interest.

    • AbuMubarak@fosstodon.org
      1·
      6 months ago

      @vermaterc @Ulrich It depends on what you want your phone to do

      Me? Encrypted calls & texts

      Banking apps… Banks are moving towards digital currency, so you need to plan ahead

      Government apps… O well

    • Ulrich@feddit.orgOPEnglish
      0·
      7 months ago

      I don’t understand why people need banking apps on their phone. I only ever access my banking info from the PC…

      • Dariusmiles2123@sh.itjust.works
        0·
        7 months ago

        In my country, for all the banks I use, I need to have an app on my phone to access their website with my Linux computer.

        So a Linux phone would need to provide this as I can’t be without access to my accounts.

        • Ulrich@feddit.orgOPEnglish
          0·
          7 months ago

          I need to have an app on my phone to access their website with my Linux computer

          Wat.

      • pmk@lemmy.sdf.org
        0·
        7 months ago

        In Sweden many parts of society requires an app called BankID. We authenticate getting mail packages, sign contracts, book a time in health care, etc with this app. It’s needed everywhere. Buying a bus ticket. A phone without this app is not sufficient to function in swedish society.

  • Matt@lemmy.ml
    0·
    7 months ago

    My next phone will be a ThinkPad because it has a SIM card slot.

    • Auth@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      7 months ago

      With the simcard slot can you use mobile data? If so thats amazing and I will be looking for that feature on my next device.

      • Piece_Maker@feddit.ukEnglish
        0·
        7 months ago

        I have a laptop with a SIM slot and I can use mobile data, SMS and even make voice calls. It doesn’t support 5G though. Also the mobile hardware is crap, and I get like a 10th of the speed over 4G that I do on my phone, plus it chews through battery.

        So yeah, awesome feature but not as nicely implemented as I’d like. Hopefully the Thinkpad version is better!

        • Anekdoteles@lemmy.ml
          0·
          7 months ago

          That was the same for mobile internet connections on a phone before Apple suddenly made that desirable to the mainstream. Also I remember ungodly terrible experiences getting data from a PC to a phone and vice versa with Samsung’s software in an era before smartphones. Both things are nowadays most basic features. So, having at least kind of functioning SIM slots in notebooks is already a promising PoC.