Every time I consider watching them I remember how they butchered logic and character development. Or plotlines that could be removed with no impact whatsoever.
The only thing I can say is that the dialogs are at least not as shallow as in the prequel trilogy.
I trid to re-watch those a few weeks ago and… No. I couldn’t stand the moments they opened their mouths to speak their lines, sorry to say.
Fuck Disney.
This is the right and complete answer.
Sequels trilogy is not canon! (・へ・)
No surprise here.
which is hopefully going to convince the Boomers and their Gen A grandkids to return to theaters when The Mandalorian and Grogu arrives in theaters
This author thinks Gen A kids are the grandchildren of Boomers? All the recent grandparents I know are Gen X and older Millenials. My Boomer parents have been great-grandparents for years now
This author thinks Gen A kids are the grandchildren of Boomers? All the recent grandparents I know are Gen X and older Millenials. My Boomer parents have been great-grandparents for years now
I don’t know what fecund land of 20 year old parents you live in, but I know fewer boomer grandparents than I do boomers who aren’t grandparents.
Boomers. As in, people born in the babyboom after the second World War.
You’re saying you know more eighty year olds that aren’t grandparents, than those that are?
I guess that could be true. But it just goes to show that n=1 is a terrible sample size.
Bear in mind that they’re not all 80, though. The youngest boomers are 61, and it’s not a stretch that they waited until early 30s to have kids, nor that their kids are waiting (or in fact that they chose not to have kids).
But it just goes to show that n=1 is a terrible sample size.
Agreed.
The current age range for boomers is 62 to 80.
And yeah, most grandparents I know are very much in that age range.
My parents are Boomers and in their 70s. You would need each generation to have kids in their 30s and 40s to be a boomer with a gen alpha grandkid. My sister is Gen X in her 50s and has two grandkids already.
Don’t forget Gen Z is between Millenials and Alpha.
Also this shows that the most common age of parents having their first child to be 20-24 up until very recently so that fecund land is your land too.
I’m 51, and my oldest grandchild is 17. I could theoretically be a great grandparent right now, if my granddaughter repeated her father’s (and my) pattern. My son was born when I was 19, and he got his High School girlfriend pregnant when they were both Freshmen.
Eh, my mum is an older boomer, and my daughter is mid-Z… I could easily see a younger boomer having an alpha grandkid.
Edit: from Wikipedia Most millennials are the children of baby boomers and older members of Generation X, and are often the parents of members of Generation Alpha.
I know it’s been beaten to death but I just finished re-watching all 9 + rogue one, and can confirm there’s no reason for anyone to go back to the sequel trilogy. TFA gets some credit as a solid popcorn flick but doesn’t change the fact it’s retreading ANH, just to have every original story beat crushed by TLJ. By the time I got to Rise of Skywalker I was totally checked out, it’s just noise and explosions with a plot that is borderline incomprehensible.
Same, I started rise of Skywalker, and only after the ridiculous opening sequence I was already done with the whole thing. And I love Star Wars.
I still can’t believe some writer penned “some how, palatine returned” into the script and didn’t light the whole draft on fire right there. I guess between the hamfisted bloodline reveal and the magical sith dagger guiding the way to the star destroyer parking lot - who cares at that point. Fuck it, send it.
Oscar Isaac did an interview recently where he revealed that line was added in reshoots. So that line was written in an attempt to fix whatever catastrophic wreck the script was in before then.
As bad as it is, that line and “they fly now” are Lucas level shit dialogue and the only two memorable lines from the trilogy. Compare that to the atrocious dialogue of the prequels that have become such beloved memes you don’t even have to add the words.
That palps line represents so much more than the dialog quality to me though. It’s all about the context, TRoS built up nothing around this and suddenly jumps sideways into a plot that neccessated invalidating a significant moment of the original trilogy. It’s jarring as a viewer and there’s no explaination for why it’s happening. THEN the film has the audacity to imply through dialog, actually the audience should not worry about the details - this is what we’re doing. Almost feels insulting in some ways.
I agree. It’s just a snippet of Lucas level dialogue in a trilogy that otherwise isn’t Lucas grade throughout. SW fans may have shat on the Prequels when they came out but have more or less forgiven and embraced them for what they were because the hardcore fans know George is a great visionary, terrible execution. The actors did the best they could and there’s a charm to what the director wanted to convey but the clunkiness of the words. The shift from Hayden and Ahmed hate to fan love shows that realization. SW now operates in two realities. The realistic grimdark of Andor, or the classic good vs evil camp of Lucas. The sequels delivered neither.
I still can’t make it through rewatching the prequels, which premiered my first year of college.
I think nostalgia will probably polish the sequel turds just like it has done with the prequels.
I just want the in fucked with OG prints in 4K, and I’ll rewatch Andor and Rogue One, and even fucking Skeleton Crew one more time.
Sure hut fans where demanding it. I thought they where going anyone can have the force. They shown it with little kid and broom. But all fans where like she has to be somebody there is no way she can’t be a nobody. Has to be blah blah blah. And the SIMPs Disney are now they are like let’s give it to them.
Disney pitch room:
“Okay, hear me out. What if: … a bigger Death Star!”
“Excellent! What will we call it?”
“Hmm… how about Star Killer!”
“GENIUS.”
The best part about the whole modern star wars franchise is the endless parodies mocking them.
Jedi Party, by Auralnauts, is my preferred way of watching the Prequels.
Auralnauts is canon as far as I’m concerned.
BEHOLD! THE SINGULARITY ENGINNNNNNNE! CAN YOU SEE ME NOW, FATHERRRRR?!?
Auralnauts are geniuses of satire and of god damned audio mixing, it’s genuinely sublime what they made of it all. I really love their Larry! series.
Creepio, have you seen… anybody?
It’s the strangest thing, they’re all dead. You killed them!
Master sir, what are Midichlorians?
It’s Heroin.
Rogue One is the only one of these new movies that I really enjoy and re-watch. I really didn’t expect Disney to allow that ending for the rebels sent Scarif but I’m glad they did. I also kinda love how they blend it into Episode IV.
Rogue One was legitimately great. Probably because it broke the Star Wars mould.
Something that I think helps it stand out is that it doesn’t rely nearly as much on “marvel style” humor. There are some funny moments but they’re more character driven you know? Like when K-2 slaps Cassian to sell the idea to the Imperials that K-2 is in charge.
And I think Transformers 2 is one of the greatest films of all time, up there with The Godfather and Citizen Kane.
You can just say you didn’t like Rogue One you don’t need to be sarcastic about it.
Not every movie needs to be Citizen Kane and the Godfather
TLJ is what I think gave the sequel trilogy… hope.
TFA is very much a nostalgia grab re-tread of ANH. Which is the point. Evil has come back and something something it rhymes.
TLJ is all about breaking the cycle. The hero? She isn’t a chosen one. She is a random unhoused garbage goblin. The reluctant hero? He isn’t coming back for selfish reasons (wanting to bang Leia) and is instead realizing that he is part of something bigger than him. The confident scoundrel? He got told quite definitively that he is a childish moron who gets people killed and to do better.
And Luke? if he was really The Chosen One… why did everything repeat? The stories of our parents aren’t gonna solve things so let’s try something new. Let’s democratize force powers. Let’s ACTUALLY fight against tyranny.
And then China allegedly got pissed and Disney had JJ come back to undo everything in the first 30 minutes of ROS. And only really succeeded in making a movie that EVERYBODY hates.
That said? Rogue One and Andor were somehow snuck in there and those are very much a Star Wars made for people who grew up watching the prequels. And it is amazing for it.
Luke was never the Chosen One, I think you’ve misinterpreted. It was Anakin who defeated the Sith. Luke just scored an assist.
Luke was the son of the evil warlord who single handedly changed the fate of not just The Rebellion but also The Galaxy (and yes, I know the EU expanded on that to make it less the case). Was he the one in the prophecy? No. But from a narrative/trope perspective, he was 100% The Chosen One.
Luke was possibly a second try for the Force (which assumes some type of agency, but any of these theories do). Anakin met all the Chosen One criteria, except he turned (thanks to the Jedi Council and Palpatine’s manipulations of them all). Luke was both a redemption for Anakin, a removal of the breaker of the prophecy (Palpatine), and a hope for the future. A second Chosen One, one who might be as or more powerful than Anakin in his prime, since he has the blood and gift but not Anakin’s personal trauma that haunts and detracts him.
I think the biggest flaw of the sequels was the vagueness of why Luke couldn’t renew or reimagine the Jedi again in a better form. It’s glossed over to give a minimal backstory for Kylo, Snope is even more unclear and ended up being nothing, and why it drove Luke into isolation still isn’t really told.
I liked TFA. I didn’t like the start of TLJ. I expected a better thing that Luke just “meh” with the saber and the apathy towards everything. I wanted something deep and dramatic, tragic even. I was okay with Rey being no one special, that actually was the best part of TLJ (the end with the kid and broom). That seemed very interesting to follow.
Then it lost me fully.
Technically Anakin brought balance to the force. There used to be a bunch of Jedi and a few Sith. Because of Anakin, now there are a few Jedi and a few Sith.
Shoot, what was that comic where Yoda demonstrated his concerns about Anakin using salt and pepper? He dumped them both out, stuck his finger in the middle, and blew all the rest off the table. He lifted his finger, showing only a few grains of each left, and said “balanced, it is”
I hadn’t heard that China might have pressured Disney about the democratization of heroism, but… I could see it. I agree TLJ felt like a bit of a downer – especially coming from the abandoned Expanded Universe novels where Luke hadn’t done the best job but at least had set a direction for Jedi to come back into the galaxy. I still don’t love Rey’s encounter with the dark side.
But the disruption of every story beat, the possibility of being a hero because YOU choose to step forward, that was a great twist. The broom scene should have set the direction of the terribly named Episode 9…
Maybe I’ll slip Rogue One in and drop Episode 9. Still 9 movies, and only really regret the first one.
TLJ wasn’t really a middle story, though. It was a downer ending. After that there was nowhere to go without a generational time skip and a completely new story that would be inappropriate for a trilogy. There was no big antagonist anymore, there was barely any protagonist left, and every dangling plot thread was ruthlessly cut short.
Contrast it with ESB and you see with that you while have a bittersweet end to the movie, you do not have an ending of the story. Lucas even left room to bring back Han who he just sort of killed.
This comment really perfectly sums up how I feel … TLJ ends with SO MUCH POTENTIAL in my eyes.
Harumph.
Potential for a completely unrelated future story, not the end of the one they were trying to tell. TLJ is why RoS is as bad as it is. It sacrificed the future for a subversion level high score.
I think a third part could have been really well done from where TLJ ended … you have a goodie who has literally come from nothing and maybe doubts herself as a result, and a baddie who got that way because he came from a dynasty of important people and believes his own press.
From there a story could be woven on the themes of them both changing who they are, how they see their respective worlds … to achieve success, or forgiveness, or love.
I’m not sure pivoting to a romance movie for the finale would have been any better received.
Sorry, who is the reluctant hero and who is the scoundrel? I think the latter is Kylo, but who wants to bang Leia in TLJ??
I will give Rise of Skywalker one thing and one thing only: Babu Frik. I know he was probably designed by committee to be cute and endearing, but man I love that little dude.
HEY-HEY!
As a fan of the Dark Empire comics, I had already accepted that Palpatine returning was a possibility. The lack of any real storyline hinting at that in the two movies leading up- I expected disappointment. And I got what I expected, though visually Exegol/life support Sheev was cool. The idea that he had an entire fleet of Death Star Destroyers fully staffed and just chilling was implausible. That they were dependent on one transmitter was ludicrous. That the attack run on them was a cavalry charge of space horses was one of the stupidest fucking thing I’ve seen on film.
What pisses me off about that movie is that they spend a fair bit of time building out that Rey has super powerful force healing. So, like, what if she healed Palpatine? What if the ending to this saga of endless galactic war was not more death, but an act of healing? Maybe Palpatine still dies, but he’s at least made aware of what he’s done or something.
Nope. Rey use two lightsaber. Rey block real good. Palpatine go dust dust.
Yeah I watched them once each and was so disappointed I think my mind erased the very memory of these films. I can’t remember shit about them.
There is some mercenary type woman in body armor and face shield that Poe Dameron meets for some reason in the last movie.
You could put a gun to my head or offer me millions of dollars, and I still wouldn’t be able to name that character.
Ah yes, the spice runner that Poe had a fling with back in his runner days that Rey has a stick up her ass about.
AKA, the girl introduced so FinnPoe shippers would be erased from existence.
One thing I’ll say, it feels like the reason for killing off Han wasn’t for the shock value, but because Harrison hates the role so much and wanted to kill off a fan favorite out of spite.
I saw all three in theaters when they came out.
Force Awakens was okay. It had a few problems, but I was willing to over look some of them because it was a new company trying to write something they had never written before. I was more forgiving towards Force Awakens.
Last Jedi ruined the entire trilogy. And honestly, if Rian Johnson actually still gets his trilogy, I will tell everyone I know to NOT see them. That guy deserves no money from Star Wars. Nothing in Last Jedi moved the plot forward, it closed off every possible loose end from 7 and left absolutely nothing for 9 to wrap up. Last Jedi is the reason Rise of Skywalker is so bad. Rian acted like his movie was the end of the series and forgot he was writing the middle movie of a trilogy. Basically half of the movie could be deleted with zero consequence. I almost walked out of the theatre mid-movie like 3 times, but I stayed just to see how bad it really got.
Rise of Skywalker is bad, but I honeslty feel really bad for JJ Abrams. What was he supposed to do in this situation? All the story strings he set up in 7 were cut in 8. At the same time, the writing was so bad that I couldn’t even believe it was real.
If I had to rate them, all three are at the bottom of the barrel. Belong in the bargain bin direct to home video DVDs you find in those thrift shops that have the super thin DVD case. But in order of best to worst: 7, 9, 8.
I am never watching them again. I have not desire or need to.
I completely agree with your post…
If I want to watch a single Star Wars movie, it will mostly be A New Hope, but every now and again I will pop on TFA for a popcorn flick.
If I have a spare day where I want to watch Star Wars, it will be R1, 4, 5 & 6
Binge Andor before R1.
Feel bad for JJ? This is how all his projects end. The man can NOT do an ending to save his life. It’s why Lost and ep 9 will follow him to the grave
So on topic of the original article:
Nobody is watching the Star Wars sequel trilogy — and that’s a problem
Can anybody else who read the article explain to me what “the problem” is? Because I don’t see it.
To me it seems more like a light at the end of the tunnel - that maybe we’ll get out of the nostalgia fad (and probably straight into the next fad).
It is a major problem for Disney. Disney’s main business strategy is to make/buy things to be nostalgic for and then sell that nostalgia at a premium.
Star Wars should have been a slam dunk for Disney. They had experience with the brand and the resources to develop it in ways George Lucas couldn’t. Yet, Disney can’t get the same cultural resonance for Star Wars that Lucas was able to give it and it shows. Hell, people shat on the prequel trilogy for its issues, but the movies were still able to resonate with society enough to get memed and talked about.
I don’t want to poop on your well phrased comment, because I do agree.
But all I can think is “Oh nooooo! Poor Disney! Someone should give the multi billion dollar company a hug!”
As commercial as Star Wars ever was, there was a message of “scrappy scruffy rebels triumphing over the Evil Empire” that was at the heart of its popularity.
IMHO, of course.
They used that to sell endless toys and crass merchandise, and made tons of money.
But along the way, Lucas, and doubly so for Disney, put their heads up their asses and believed it was all the exotic designs, and spaceships, and special effects, and fights, and and and and that was what made Star Wars Special, instead of a simple inspiring message that good can triumph over oppressive evil.
Modern Hollywood doesn’t know how to make a good movie anymore.
It’s not Hollywood just “doesn’t know”, it can’t, period.
When modern Hollywood movies are financed, by banks, there is a risk assessment: The stars, director, script summary, etc are put into an algorithm to minimize the risk that the movie will bomb and that bank loan will be repaid.
The result is that only the movies that are approved for production loans are those that roughly match all the hit movies that came before it.
The result is a system that can only make the same fucking movies, with the same fucking old man stars, directed by the same octegenarian directors, because they’re designed to please the financial algorithms as much as…, you know, audiences.
It’s like a roundabout way to get AI slop: Hey this movie approved by the algorithm made money, so let’s make copies of that, instead of new ideas, or something that’s in tune with the times for which there is no precedent.
Incidentally, this type of algorithm is also used by popular music producers to find hit songs, which is why all modern pop music sounds the same.
Tl;dr we were better off when the Mafia was in charge of financing movies because at least a real human with good taste could decide which movies got financing, instead of an algorithm.
I haven’t seen any of the sequels, but why do they keep letting JJ Abrams write/direct movies? He ruined Star Trek too.
because people love his movies.
I’ve liked a lot of Abrams’ work, but yes, he really shat on Star Wars/Trek. I find he has great ideas, and great starts for those ideas, but he just gets bogged down with all the history and storylines, ending up with an absolute slog, with lots of explosions and lens flares to distract from that. So, given all that, I’m not surprised with his disappointing results with both multi-episode stories told over decades.
I’m asking this trying not to sound like a dick, but sincerely - what Abram’s work do you like? His entire filmography looks so weak these days, and it’s even worse if we just evaluate him as a director.
I liked Super 8, but that’s all that stands out to me. Even that maybe felt more “Spielberg at home”, but it was entertaining.
I enjoyed the Alias and Fringe series, especially the overall concept. They both staggered hard for the last season or so. I didn’t realize Regarding Henry was a film of his, which I thought was excellent. I didn’t mind Felicity, but I think Alias was a better spin on the core concept.
Yes, as a director, im not overly impressed, but like I said, I liked his ideas, and the initial setup, but the wrap-up sucked. The last has a much bigger impact on movies, and wrapping up established world will only highlight his weaknesses.
I was a big fan of 2009’s Star Trek. Saw it a bunch in theaters. I’ve rewatched it a time or two recently (wife digs it) and, aside from the cast, I really don’t like it. It doesn’t feel like Star Trek (and I’m someone who will find things to defend about Discovery and loved Starfleet Academy while DS9 remains my all-time favorite series). But boyhowdy is Chris Pine great as Kirk. Zachary Quinto is also phenomenal as Spock. I could actually go either way with the castings of Uhura, Scotty, and Sulu. But Karl Urban as McCoy must be defended at all costs.
Abrams, when it comes to Star Trek and Star Wars feels like he’s making what popular culture thinks of those franchises and not what the franchises themselves are all about, if that makes sense. It’s almost a parody.
yeah, he’s trying to make money. you do that by appealing to the LCD, violence and sex and easy to digest plots full of tropes.
thoughtful sci fi is niche, it doesn’t make any money.
The only worthwhile thing is the soundtrack, and you can listen to the albums without watching the movies.
I actually watched the second one twice, because I literally forgot I watched it the first time. Like, I saw it on the listing and said to myself “hey, I heard this is lousy, but maybe I can give it a try, I bet its at least fun and entertaining.”
I got fully halfway through the movie before I realized that I had actually watched it before. I usually have a pretty good memory for films, but this thing has so little substances and held so little of my interest it just sorta slips through my brain without leaving anything behind at all.
I know for a fact that I have seen it twice because of that memory of realizing it halfway through the second viewing, but you know what? I still don’t remember the movie at all. I have zero memory of it. I cannot tell you what its about or what happens. Nothing at all. It is like getting surgery. You are awake and then you are awake again a couple hours later. Nothing in between.
The Force Awakens was fine, for a near shot-for-shot remake of A New Hope.
The Last Jedi is underrated, and I would argue the worst aspects are the attempt to redo the battle of Hoth. Overall a valiant attempt to make Star Wars something other than “the Skywalker Files.”
I made it ~15 minutes into The Rise of Skywalker before I turned it off. When did Leia become a Jedi Master again? Sometime after TLJ and the start of TRoS?
The best of these movies was okay. Of course no one is watching them.
I may have my movies backwards, but I’m pretty sure space Jesus Leia is from TLJ and was one of the criticisms of that movie.
TLJ is where she pulls herself back into a ship after being thrown into space, but TRoS is where Rey refers to her “master” and the reveal is that it’s Leia. I’m…fine with the scene in TLJ, she’s Luke’s twin and in RotJ he says she’s strong in the force so instinctively rescuing herself is not a huge problem. But if she was a Jedi master in TRoS she should have at least had some indication of significant training in the two preceding films.
Flying through space while unconscious, something that’s never been shown possible by even trained conscious jedi, is fine, but not mentioning someone has training is a leap too far?
If you read Rian Johnsons reasoning for the space flight scene it depicts someone without a lot of care for the world of star wars and someone who just wants to make a scene.
Not that it’s a competition, but I was told it’s an “at at” (rhymes with hat hat), and thier justification was that they heard JJ say it that way.
Nobody, and I mean nobody with any say in the sequels understood the universe even at an elementary level. Everyone just showed up to flip the franchise up by the ankles and give a few shakes to try and dislodge its lunch money.
Listen. There are only a handful of hills I am willing to die on. And one of those hills is that the “rhymes with ‘hat hat’” pronunciation is objectively wrong. Like even Lucas could say it and it’s wrong. “AyTee-AyTee” is the pronunciation. This is because there are other vehicles in that series, most notably the AT-ST. So what do you call that? The “Aht-EssTee?”
takes swig from flask
I guess I think like Rian Johnson, because his explanation (it’s like a person instinctively clawing for the surface when drowning) makes sense to me. I’ve been in a handful of situations where I felt like my life was in danger and I managed to do things I could not accomplish if I was trying to do them consciously. There’s a big difference between (say) holding your breath for a number of minutes when waves are pounding you into the sand, and reaching another person how to swim.
The issue isn’t about drawing upon some inate power/competency, it’s the degree in which it’s done.
Holding your breath for longer or lifting a heavier car than you thought possible is enhancing a known capability. Surviving in the vaccum of space and flying aren’t known abilities.
I think we see this kind of thing done much better in The Mandalorian where we see Grogu manage to utilize the force in small ways initially (and not always as intended), then building things up over time. That’s what we’d expect from someone inexperienced in the force, able to call upon some elements of it when needed, but not pulling off feats someone trained in the force can’t do.
Thats why I say Rian had little respect for the franchise. He literally says he wants to subvert expectations, but in many ways he was just breaking existing lore and/or rules of the universe. That’s not good writing in my opinion. To subvert expectations you can’t just change the rules.
Edit: Spelling/grammer
Flying through space while unconscious, something that’s never been shown possible by even trained conscious jedi, is fine, but not mentioning someone has training is a leap too far?
Unconcious? She’s up and walking around in that scene when she gets back on the ship.
Maybe this isn’t the full scene, but it shows her getting blasted into space unconscious, eyes bolt open and she flies through space, then she’s on the ship unconscious. So like, I guess maybe technically she was conscious during the flying, but that’s still pretty weak.
heh, I’ll be honest, I thought she landed earlier and walked to the door. Less “up and walking around” and more “slumped against a door”.
It’s been a while since the movie came out, and I haven’t re-watched it, so that’s on me.
I had to look up the scene to remember what happened.
It’s amazing how it would have been a very powerful scene had they just let her character die, now it’s a point of contention in the fan base.
I understand Rian wanting to give Leia her moment, but I feel like that understated her existing role. Leia was already the commander and that had been demonstrated in the originals and the sequels. She didnt need to be a force user to be valuable, but if she was it should have been through a subtle subterfuge or in a commanding manner, not an involuntary life saving throw.
The Last Jedi is my favorite Star Wars movie. But you wouldn’t be able to tell from my Disney account because I haven’t even gotten around to watching Maul yet.
Some people think I’m not a real Star Wars fan; as though that were insulting somehow.
“There is another…”
Seriously. The Last Jedi is also my favorite Star Wars movie. It’s an elegant piece of film making.
Star Wars died when it was sold out to a fascist company.
The first two thirds or so of The Force Awakens is fine. After that everything that follows is utter dogshit.
