I dont see this as black and white at all. What alternative is there to un? Now dont get me wrong, the real role of un and the one it ought to have have little in common, but still I wouldnt argue for its end, now that it could help against israel, in whatever small way it can. Also idk why should it become better for states outside of global north, I dont see any indication.

the overthrow in syria in my view didnt install a democratic or popular socialist, or in fact a democratic popular leader per say. President is a former islamist militia commander. Meanwhile while the state deals with secrarian violence between alawites christians kurds druze, israel has expanded settlements in golan and does now regular strikes even further into syrian territory. framing potential iran or syria as socialist is just marketing, it shows no connection to either of the situations there. thats why i asked. If this is the sort of freedom you are “neutral” on then we disagree. in syria the popularity cannot even be argued on the same grounds because it wasnt toppled through uprising.

in iran the protests were followed by orders larger pro gvmt anti foreign influence ones. I can give source its on craddle for example. Also notice how the revolution against shah is different, point me to significant backing of it by foreign power. That was grassroots, this one has mossad and cia all over it

No it just seems to me that you dont support the syrian govenment. Did you even support the previous overthrow?

Well the governmemt there war overthrown with israeli and us support. So the syrian people are finally free no? I dont know, it doesnt seem socialist or even better for that matter to me.

Ah sorry, i was asking whats wrong with syrian socialism.

So not yet?

Tell me when you address one of my points.

Yes you said that foreign infiltration brought people like lenin. Thats how this began, when you tried to use this to not see an issue with us and mossad infiltration.

lol, you compared mossad to lenin, bruv what position you have to say whats a weird claim

Ok this isnt a serious debate, ive explained nemerous times the thing you ‘quoted’ also this isnt a quote, this is not even a phrase

which of my points did you react to? I cant see single one, are you unable or unwilling? Whats wrong with syrian socialism?

because replacing an internal semi dictatorial gvmt with foreign engineered collapse doesnt produce freedom, it produces Iraq, Syria, libya etc

its simmilar to argument that nazis offered russians a chance against stalin. technically true, catastrophically immoral, and lethal in practice

I agree if we ignore context then no issue. i mean you respond to none of my points, this is like talking at a wall. Reread my previous comment and respond to what i actually wrote. For example whats wrong with th syriam socialism? Why dont you appreciate that gvmt? Didnt syrians want it?

also your claim rests on some iranian people, yet the progvmt demonstrations were far larger. Can you explain this issue?

If only the theocratic undemocratic, protestor murdering, imperialist, misogynist regime of US ended.

Indeed, and thats a big if, given that the progovernment protests also against foreign interference were by orders of magnitude larger. Look its impossible to pretend to care for iranians, if you trust us and israel in their intentions. Thats simmilar to say if nazis helped russians overthrow their soviet gvmt. Now i wonder did some russian disident make such a claim?

And again noone is defending the gvmt for the sake of it. What the point is, that foreign backed coup, like the one in syria, would give horrendous results, and it would help far worse governments like the israels genociders. Also in no way would this get iran closer to good defense. After they get nukes, then they will be safe.

But dont get me wrong, under shah absolutely i would have supported the revolutionary gvmt. They are at least iranian, not foreign owned. And they were indeed revolutionary.

Hey whats wrong with syrian socialism? And so what if mossad is involved as has been extensively reported and they even said it on their x account, that doesnt mean that they dont want the best socialism for iran. But to be clear, in magic land absolutely, then the whole world would be certainly not capitalist.

its interesting how many people are willing to disregard the israeli hand in this. You may have forgotten, but not so long ago iran almist had nuclear wmds, according to netanyahu, now do you remember last time what that looked like, in iraq? Yeah the israelies we willingly trying to make that happen to iran, and now they so much care for iranian people of course. They even held a protest, not against the genocide mind you, but against the cruel gvmt of iran.

Sure, we can expect socialism like they have in syria now. No one is supporting the current regime for the sake of it. Thats a strawman.

This is so laughably bad. Whos the next lenin? Is he currently working for cia or mossad? Which prominent socialist circles does he come from?

Now dont get me wrong, north korean style iran i wouldnt mind, or say stalin like, most importantly they need self defense, nuclear weapons. Before that even if by divine action a socialist became the president after the us and israel backed coup(seriously i cant imagine how other than descending from heavens), he woyld be swiftly replaced. Socialism isnt tolerated.

Im sure us and israel will help with that. It wont be like the previous time right?

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